With typical alacrity, the islamophobic right have moved from claiming the Norwegian terrorist was a muslim, to claiming it was a “false flag” operation to claiming he is just a lone madman. The reasons they have to do this are obvious – labeling him a terrorist places him in a political context, and the political context in this case is scum like this, who have been peddling exterminationist anti-muslim, anti-“marxist” propaganda with increasing stridency in the past few years.
Recently on this blog I’ve been examining the role of propaganda in driving Allied and Japanese atrocities in world war 2, based on my reading of the book War Without Mercy. The “lone madman” excuse is relevant to this, because a lot of the people making this claim are doing so purely on the fruits of Bleivik’s work – that is, anyone who would kill 70 unarmed people must be a madman – and I don’t think history tells us this is a valid logical approach. The right-wing shockjocks and anti-“cultural marxists” are unable to point to his writings as proof of his insanity, since they are basically a quite lucid reproduction of the works of Pam Geller, early Little Green Footballs, Free Republic, Glenn Beck, Andrew Bolt and Melanie Phillips. So instead they point to his actions as evidence of his insanity (just as they also point to his actions as evidence he can’t be a christian).
But the history of war – and even recent wars, in Vietnam and World War 2 – show us that you don’t have to be a madman to kill a lot of unarmed people. The atrocities depicted in War Without Mercy were carried out by otherwise quite ordinary people who returned comfortably and without difficulty to ordinary lives after the war. Machine-gunning lifeboats, murdering unarmed sailors floating in the water, shooting significant numbers of prisoners in cold-blood, calibrating your flamethrowers so it takes the enemy a while to die, cutting out their fillings while they’re still alive, making them dance to your shooting before you finally tire of the game and kill them, throwing them from planes, or forcing them to fight after they try to surrender – all in a day’s work for some ordinary Allied soldiers in the Pacific War. So are we to conclude that these ordinary soldiers were also mad? We can’t conclude they were driven mad by war, since none of these things were done in significant numbers in Africa or Europe, even when the Allies were losing. Why should only Allies in the Pacific theatre be mad? Some selection process?
No, the answer is that they weren’t mad, and they were doing what they believed was necessary. For another example of the same, consider the “order police” described in Richard Browning’s Ordinary Men. These soldiers, mostly too old to join the regular army, usually married and with children of their own, participated in large-scale extermination of Jews in Eastern Europe over a 2 year period during world war 2. They were offered at first the chance to avoid these duties, many of them had to get drunk to do it, and often they tried to get local collaborators (e.g. Tiwis) to do the worst of it. But many of them still did it, even though it sickened them. They were doing what they thought was necessary, and they thought it was necessary because the propaganda told them so. History provides us many many examples of people who did terrible things from a position of lucid sanity, and there is no reason to judge the Norwegian terrorist by any different standard.
If he is mad, he will be judged so on DSM-IV criteria by a physician, not on the basis of this action. Similarly, if he is christian he should be judged so on his participation in christian rites and acceptance of Jesus, not on the basis that “no christian would kill 70 unarmed people.” And whether or not he was insane, the islamophobic right needs to accept that he picked his targets based on their propaganda. Whether he chose to kill 70 people because he was insane or because he thought it was a necessary first act in a war, the people he chose to kill were identified for him by the right-wing propagandists whose ludicrous paranoid rantings he was so obssessed with. He is a terrorist of the right, and the right needs to accept the crucial role their propaganda played in prepping him and identifying his targets.
July 27, 2011 at 3:41 pm
No, definetely not insane. An asshole of colossal portions yes. He executed what he wanted to do with surgical precision. While I agree it was definetely right wing related I suspect there is more to this in terms of local pressures to deem such a heinous act “necessary”. It’ll be interesting to see exactly what unfolds.
July 27, 2011 at 3:56 pm
The best reasons I know for labelling this guy mad are:
a) I can’t see his intended train of logic. For example, his thinking seems to be “The Norwegian Labour party is evil because it supports multiculturalism. I’ll attack them to 1. hurt them and 2. make more white people hurt Muslims.”
The reason to hurt the Labour party is something I can see/understand. But the second party just seems to be nonsensical on the level of “Get underpants, umph, profit!”
b) The reports I’ve seen say he extensively quotes right-wing columnists/shock-jocks. But the parts that aren’t copy/pastes are the bits where he whinges about being feminised through knitting classes in school. That’s a long way to carry a grudge.
Ultimately this guy seems to be sane, because he’s clearly not pants on head insane, but his version of sane doesn’t seem to interface with my version of sane at some important points. [1] Of course, if you regard Hannibal Lector as sane, then this guy would probably belong in the cell right next to him.
” Similarly, if he is Christian he should be judged so on his participation in Christian rites and acceptance of Jesus, not on the basis that “no Christian would kill 70 unarmed people.” “
Sorry, your argument here is just arrant nonsense. Under your logic if Hitler had left a note saying “Actually, I’m a communist” then communism would bear the blame for the holocaust. As a less extreme example, if I claimed to be an anarcho-syndicalist, but owned troves of shares in companies, opposed union demonstrations and only read right-wing papers then my total failure to demonstrate the slightest twinge of anarcho-syndicalism would suggest my claim was lip service only.
On a related note, if you refuse to let the group that the terrorist claims to belong to set standards for entry to their group, then we can drop all need to refer to Islamist terrorism as Islamist. We could just call it Muslim terrorism (and falsely tar over a billion guiltless people with guilt through association). And that’d actually suggest that the worst of the right wing commentators are right when they blame Muslims in general instead of Muslim extremists.
“the people he chose to kill were identified for him by the right-wing propagandists whose ludicrous paranoid rantings he was so obsessed with.”
Now, this is the bit where I don’t see your case. I read a fair bit of this right wing commentary and I can’t recall the bit where it said “Go kill other white people.” If he’d attacked a mosque, then I’d be able to follow your reasoning. I think you need to drop this claim and make the more torturous trek explaining how “Right wing commentators blame multiculturalism” leads to “This guy wanted to start up a mass movement against multiculturalism/Islam” then through the jungles of “God knows why he thought this would help, but somehow I’ll avoid blaming the voices in his head [2]” to finally reach “This guy attacked the Labour party on Glenn Becks orders”.
To blame right wing people or commentators as the source of this problem is similar to blaming the Muslims or the Koran for violent Islamists. The problem certainly springs from the ground in question, but you can’t go blaming the broad group given the huge numbers of non-violent people in the same group. To do otherwise would be Islamophobic when applied to Muslims, therefore a similar logical failure (and bias) applies for blaming right-wingers.
Alternatively, you could try to claim that the right wing commentators are more akin to terrorism supporting imans [3]. But we also don’t shut down such imans unless they move way past “coded messages” and into “actually saying where the bomb should be placed” (despite the calls that right wing commentators make asking for lower standards of evidence). At the moment I’d be more tempted to equate the culture of right wing commentary with the left wing grievance narrative that (according to right wing commentators) contributed towards the hatred the London 7/7 bombers displayed towards the culture they grew up in [4].
In conclusion, I don’t see a reason to treat this other than the same way right wing complaints about multiculturalism undermining Western civilisation are treated. The complaints you’re making should be ignored. The complainants (you) and the people they are complaining about (right wing commentators) should both be able to speak freely.
[1] Like the whether or not it’s OK to kill people.
[2] Otherwise he’s crazy
[3] Note: To do this it’d help to show where Fox News suggested the killings
[4] This alleged dislike of Western culture is an example of right wing commentators drawing a long bow from the supposed cause to the final event. It’s certainly too long a stretch to suggest any change in the way we act around assessing our own culture, and the argument you’re making here is similarly flawed.
July 27, 2011 at 4:02 pm
@Grey: “He executed what he wanted to do with surgical precision.”
I agree that by standards of competence he’s not crazy. But we don’t use that term to purely measure ability to act. We also use it to describe how easily we can understand the other persons thought processes.
I’m not claiming that this guy is a Cthulhu level of different, but the way he’s thinking is logical, sensible and absolute anathema to the way most of us think (and want to think).
Personally, I believe the reason we label people like that mad is because we don’t want to think we are capable of it. Or maybe because it hurts to think the way he does.
For an example of what I mean by hurts to think that way, imagine beckoning school kids towards yourself, telling them they’re safe and then shooting them. I can type the words but I absolutely will not imagine that scenario with me in it (and I prefer not to have to do it with others playing roles in it either).
July 27, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Paul, the problem with your position on his lack of sanity (which I would like to agree with) is that (as I mentioned in the post) we have extensive evidence from history that when ordinary people think they need to, they can do horrible things (including to children) in cold blood. The “insane” part here is why he decided that these things were necessary in the first place; my argument is that, just as WW2 soldiers decided their behaviour was necessary on the basis of propaganda, so did he. If he really does see himself as a soldier in a war, then his acts are exactly as he describes them – “unpleasant but necessary” (or some such). He could still be insane by some clinical definition, but we can’t define him that way through just his acts, no matter how much we might like to think so. To try it another way – there were 10s of thousands of men dropping bombs on Japanese cities in world war 2, and they could see whole cities burning. They knew they were slaughtering children. These men all fitted perfectly into society – did their version of sane not interface with yours? I think it does.
Under your logic if Hitler had left a note saying “Actually, I’m a communist” then communism would bear the blame for the holocaust.
No, under my logic you wouldn’t say “Hitler’s not a communist because communists don’t start wars of aggression.” You would assess whether or not Hitler was a communist from wheter he had participated in communist meetings, quoted often from Marx and other communist scholars in defence of his political goals, and claimed his actions were aimed at defending communism in a long tirade. Note I didn’t say anything about this terrorist’s self-identification as a christian; here I’m addressing the idea that he can’t be a christian because christians don’t commit murder. Not only is this false (witness A: the crusades; witness B: the old testament) but it’s a deliberate logical trick to escape blaming christians for anything they do that is bad.
e.g. that priest can’t be catholic because catholics don’t fuck children. Therefore catholics can’t be held responsible for the abuse of children by their church.
On your related note: I’m happy to let the group the terrorist claims to belong to set standards for entry to their group. But they don’t get to refine those standards beyond what I consider reasonable. This terrorist claims to be a christian and appears to have been a church-goer, who regularly quoted the bible, and talked about defending christian europe. That’s qualification enough for me. You actually don’t find many “defenders of Islam” claiming bin Laden is not a muslim. They just say he’s a bad muslim who has perverted the teachings of the Quran.
I read a fair bit of this right wing commentary and I can’t recall the bit where it said “Go kill other white people.”
How about all that crap about “water the tree of liberty”? People turning up armed to Obama’s meetings (okay, he’s not white, I suppose) while holding that sign. Don’t retreat, reload? Cross-hairs on democratic senators? How about this? Or you can read some of the more impressive achievements of the supremacist blogger Fjordman at Little Green Footballs, where this nasty piece of work predicts a civil war over multiculturalism – this by necessity involves white-on-white violence. Then there’s Tony Abbott demanding a people’s revolt. Limbaugh suggesting putting a bullet in the brain of Assange. Glenn Beck continually reminds his audience about how “dangerous” liberals are and all of them talk about being “at war” with liberalism. They claim their own president is not a legitimate president. Then there’s the inestimable Ann Coulter, and Pam Geller of course. It’s not a coincidence, either, that Andrew Bolt puts up occasional columns criticizing specific climate scientists, and immediately afterwards they receive death threats. How do you think you can explain the death threats climate scientists experience after public meetings? Then there’s the use of the word “dhimmi” to describe those who support multiculturalism or oppose racism against muslims – read any blog with this kind of language (Jihad Watch, Geller, Free Republic) and you’ll soon see that the propaganda being used about these people is nasty and intended to dehumanize and encourage a sense of conflict – in a world that is allegedly involved in a war over civilization. This is intended to tie the “cultural marxists” to those that the right-wing commentators claim they are fighting, violently if necessary. On top of that there’s the anti-abortion stuff in the US, and if you look around the right-wing blogs, both in comments and in posts, you’ll see people expressing “understanding” for why the events happened, even appreciation or defense of the shooter. Try Geller, Malkin or Free Republic for starters. Then, of course, there’s The Tea Party. And remember that a lot of people claim that their own (Democrat, i.e. liberal) president is a secret muslim, that is a spy sent by their enemies who they are in an epochal struggle against.
So yes, the right wing commentators and their blogging mates are akin to terrorism-supporting imams. And yes, we don’t shut down those imams until they move past “coded messages,” and I don’t think you’ll find me suggesting shutting down these right-wing commentators. But it’s silly for right-wing commentators to pretend that these coded messages (and their more blatant ones, too, for that matter) aren’t somehow relevant to the increasing range and scale of violent acts and threats we’ve seen in the last 10 years. If people like Geller are going to preach eliminationism, and make out that “liberals” and Labour Youth are “dhimmis” and (as the Quadrant article puts it) allies of islamists, then it’s inevitable that someone is going to join the dots.
July 28, 2011 at 10:40 am
Hmm, we may be speaking at cross purposes. I don’t disagree with you that dehumanisation of other people enables violence against that group. The things I disagree on are:
1. This is an exclusively right wing problem
2. That the problem can be used to define the right wing commentators or thought
3. That the issues being discussed (such as multiculturalism and immigration) are topics that should be avoided, or are not serious issues that should be confronted
4. That the right wing commentators in question should be silenced in any way
5. That commentators are equivalent to hate preachers and advocates of violence [1]
Because of that, I’d like to just pick up some themes from your post and response.
”The “insane” part here is why he decided that these things were necessary in the first place”
I disagree. I can bring myself to understand why he thought these were issues worth fighting for. I disagree with his interpretation of the risks involved and the best manner to respond to them, but surely we can agree that freedom is something worth fighting for in general, and that Western civilisation in particular is one of the best examples of freedom and associated ideals that we’ve got and that, as such, it is worth fighting for – though hopefully that fight is generally a symbolic or intellectual one rather than one where people actually get hurt.
That’s way I said his insanity was in the nonsensical approach (how the hell will this help his cause?) and in the ability to disassociate himself so thoroughly from decent norms to perform these actions. You’ve got a theory you think explains the second bit. I don’t think it does for a normal person living a suburban life. You could probably convince me otherwise if he was regularly attacked by Muslims, or if he’d had friends hurt by them. But without additional incentive beyond propaganda I just can’t see it.
“You actually don’t find many “defenders of Islam” claiming bin Laden is not a muslim. They just say he’s a bad muslim who has perverted the teachings of the Quran.”
Actually what’s more relevant here is that you get heaps of commentators saying you can’t blame Islam for terrorism (even the right wing ones). So why are you interested in the fact this guy was (or claimed to be) Christian? The correct comment is “He was Christian, but you can’t blame Christians for his actions. We should ensure that there is no Christophobic backlash. [2]”
So given that isn’t what you, or other people who point out he was Christian, seem to be saying I have to ask “Yeah. So?” The interesting thing I can see with this guy was that the knee jerk reaction was to say “It must have been an Islamist terrorist attack” when in fact it was a Christian terrorist attack. So? The only lesson we can learn are 1) that Christians can be bad people too. But I’m generally unsurprised by that. And 2) we make knee jerk reactions that assume Islamists did it. If you think there is something else I’m meant to take from the revelation he was Christian then please bring expand on it. Don’t just say “He was Christian” and then make those waggly suggestive eyebrow motions.
Point 2) is interesting. But then again, the most recent (July) widely reported terror attack was in Mumbai. Would you care to place a bet on who was behind that one? I’ll place a bet on an Islamist backed by elements of the ISI (with the link to the ISI never being proven) [3]. The one I recall before that was the failed Times Square bomb, where some parts of the media quickly jumped to it being a right wing nut case based on the fact it was near media outlets. Those predictions were wrong too.
So if your point is we make assumptions about who would conduct terror attacks. Yes. We do. But I’m unaware of anyone who makes a knee jerk reaction that it’s an Islamist then burns a Mosque down in the Western world. That’s a pretty good outcome and one I’m proud of.
”So yes, the right wing commentators and their blogging mates are akin to terrorism-supporting imams.”
OK then. It that’s so we’ll either be able to quickly produce a list of right wing terror attacks on Muslims in the Western world, or else we’ll have to accept that either a) you’re wrong, or b) the right wing commentators aren’t the hyper competent evil masterminds that you seem to fear or c) the way you interpret right wing commentary is not the same way the consumers of that commentary interpret it.
I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the relative number of right wing attacks since 2001 suggest option c) to me. You hear “Don’t retreat. Reload” as a suggestion to buy a gun then kill a president or senator. I suspect the people who listen to that message hear “Insert your favourite sports metaphor here, such as We’re three runs down at the bottom of the ninth and the bases are loaded.” Neither of those resonate with me, but under my theory we can understand why the constant exhortations to violence that you claim are being made seem to result in very little violence. And that violence has most notably come from someone who was raised not in an environment saturated with it, but one that may have ensured he didn’t have the cultural markers to understand what was being said.
[1] Though I will happily concede that they are equivalent to idiots and that there are large segments of “thought” on “my” side of politics that are embarrassing to be near.
[2] I’ll place any bet you want that we’ll never hear Richard Dawkins say this.
[3] Given it’s India that does seem to be safe bet. And I bet the odds on these things.
July 29, 2011 at 10:58 am
He was certainly insane to think that this would do anything but set back the cause of the far right in Europe – look at how fast the EDL have to backpedal now that they’ve been associated with him. Arguably, though, bin Laden made the same mistake – thinking that he would stir up a worldwide Muslim revolt against the west, and instead getting … nothing. He’d have looked even dumber if the Taliban had handed him over to the US straight away.
So why are you interested in the fact this guy was (or claimed to be) Christian?
Like I said, I’m not. I’m interested in the tautological method of claiming that he can’t be [category A] because [category A] don’t kill children. This is applied both to his supposed insanity, and also to his christianity. As a logical method it’s piss-poor, and it’s very popular with the right all of a sudden because they want to deny that the violent far right has any connection to christianity. They can only do this by ignoring, variously, both sides of the conflict in Ireland (they also kill children – try telling Ian Paisley he’s not a christian), the christian survivalist movement in the US, the minutemen, the KKK, etc. blah blah. You are a christian if you are baptized and profess to be a christian. This man was both.
But I’m unaware of anyone who makes a knee jerk reaction that it’s an Islamist then burns a Mosque down in the Western world. That’s a pretty good outcome and one I’m proud of.
Sadly that’s not entirely correct. Not only did violence against muslims increase significantly after September 11th, but we now have a case of a Norwegian terrorist who killed 70-something people in reaction to his fears of Islam. This was his stated intention. He gave his reasons for not attacking muslims, and you may think those reasons were stupid, but what he did was all about his opposition to Islam. And now it’s turning out he plagiarized the introduction of his manifesto from William Lind’s tirade on political correctness, so it’s pretty clear that he views “cultural marxism” as a key enemy. Is it any surprise that he targeted the exact political tendency that Lind identified as betraying the christian west?
OK then. It that’s so we’ll either be able to quickly produce a list of right wing terror attacks on Muslims in the Western world
No, because the right-wing commenters don’t just demand violence against muslims in their own countries,they also target heir enemies in the “culture war.” You can see some of the latest examples here, for example. Bill O’Reilly openly claims that the New York Times editors deliberately changed the title of a news article to slander christianity. He sees them as traitors. The Quadrant article I linked to above clearly associates “leftists” with “islamists.” It doesn’t describe leftists as accidental enablers – it describes them as deliberately trying to undermine society in favour of islam. Do you recall the way Bolt, Blair and the other right-wing bloggers, along with the entire News International newspaper world, described David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib? Particularly Hicks, who was not referred to by name in the Telegraph, but simply called “The Traitor.” And many was the time they claimed indefinite detention was the right punishment for him.
In this environment, why should we be surprised that someone shoots a senator who Palin had previously “targeted,” or attacks a bunch of leftist politicians? They have been clearly designated as either specifically the enemy, or as aiding and abetting the enemy. The language used for both is violent. So the simplest explanation for why “the constant exhortations to violence that you claim are being made seem to result in very little violence” is probably just that most people are sensible (or apathetic) enough to think it’s not worth the effort. Or the propaganda just isn’t that effective – it’s not an environment of total saturation, after all. But the fact that it’s not 100% effective doesn’t mean we can’t draw the obvious conclusions when a man who murdered 70 people in pursuit of William Lind’s political program tells us that that is exactly why he did it.
July 30, 2011 at 10:15 am
As an example of where this rhetoric is going, consider this piece from RenewAmerica, written after the Norwegian attacks. The description of the left in that comment piece clearly describes them as enemies of America. Sure it doesn’t tell its reader to kill leftists, but it makes pretty clear that politics is not about differences of opinion, but about fighting back against a treacherous coup that has taken over the state. Anyone with a bent for violence is going to jump to a certain conclusion, wouldn’t you say?
August 2, 2011 at 5:28 pm
“I’m interested in the tautological method of claiming that he can’t be [category A] because [category A] don’t kill children.”
I’m comfortable agreeing that for most useful definitions, you can’t (or at least shouldn’t) just revoke the identifier a person has claimed. Though I note that this means that Communists are to blame for the inequality resulting from senior Communists buying state assets in the 90s, creating the current set of Russian oligarchs. Apparently being a massive capitalist doesn’t disqualify you from being a communist. Who knew?
Paul: ”But I’m unaware of anyone who makes a knee jerk reaction that it’s an Islamist then burns a Mosque down in the Western world.”
Faustus: ”Sadly that’s not entirely correct. Not only did violence against muslims increase significantly after September 11th, but we now have a case of a Norwegian terrorist who killed 70-something people in reaction to his fears of Islam.”
My point there was about knee jerk reactions. And the facts support me. After both September 11 and Norway zero mosques were burnt down before the culprit was identified. After the facts come out then it’s hardly a knee jerk reaction, unless you want to categorise your post on this as knee-jerk just because it’s based on something that happened in the last month.
”In this environment, why should we be surprised that someone shoots a senator who Palin had previously “targeted,””
Come on, how about you at least allow that that was a random nut case who thought that the government was attempting to control people’s minds through manipulating grammar? The culprit’s best friend reported that the shooter hated both sides of politics and never watched any type of popular media. [1]
”Or the propaganda just isn’t that effective – it’s not an environment of total saturation,”
What?! You can’t say that! It’ll ruin Bob Brown’s case against the Murdoch media! Everyone knows that the entire right wing take their marching order from the memo’s sent out by Fox!
Looking though the Guardian article you linked two posts up, I can’t find a single “BTW, kill XYZ” message. And from what I’ve read of their rantings they’re not dissimilar to Noam Chomsky’s claims that there is no real democracy in the Western world or the “We’re to blame” articles published after September 11. As in, they’re distasteful and disagreeable, but you have to draw your own line from their opinions to violence.
I can’t claim that their comments sit very comfortably with me (because they’re all based around a totally partisan distrust and dislike of the other side), but come on. This doesn’t qualify them as being the equivalent of imans who advocate violence. It’d struggle to put them in the same league as the iman who claimed that immodestly covered women were to blame for rape (by comparing those women to uncovered meat near cats) as they’re not trying to excuse it after the fact. [3]
Breivik also quoted Howard, Costello, Pell, Steyn, Windshuttle and Darwin. In order to suggest there is a problem with what they said you have to provide the quote and explain why that quote is wrong. Not point to a bad person and say “He read and quoted them, therefore they’re bad.”
As for the RenewAmerica link you gave:
1. You’re quoting a guy who doesn’t believe Obama is a natural-born American. Sorry, but I’ve already said I think some of these people are nuts. You can’t quote a website I’ve never heard of and expect me to take it as an example of how the right wing commentary is toxic
2. He spends ages describing a means of revolution that is non-violent (though I disagree with him it’s a revolution or, consequentially, invalid, though I accept his right to want a different approach to governance)
3. He uses the word enemies once.
4. Most importantly, he mentions guns for 2 lines and milk and fruit for 2 paragraphs!
Based on that, anyone who’s not desperately looking for a gun reference is going to come away with some sort of weird idea that visiting a farmers market and growing your own fruit is the start of a revolution against the traitorous progressives (which it may be in his mind, the guy doesn’t believe Obama is a natural born US citizen). You can do better than this guy. Find a real nutcase. There’s bound to be someone saying Obama should be shot for stealing the Whitehouse. And there’s a reasonable chance they’re a commentator on Fox…
So you’re reading a lot into a little. But come on then: What’s your policy prescription? Do you want Fox taken off the air? A mandatory “But don’t achieve this through violence” insert into every right-wing commentator’s column or rant? A mea culpa from Glenn Beck? Or just to score a political point against someone on the other side?
I respect that you feel there is a link between propaganda and the ability of ordinary people to do violence to others. But I reject the idea that the current commentary is at a level supporting that and I reject any proposition that freedom of commentary should be restricted in order to prevent edge cases of bad people doing bad things. Only clear and demonstrable cases of incitation to violence should be acted against, and they should be acted against through the existing laws. For people who feel otherwise, feel free to comment (as you have).
Ultimately this has probably drifted away from your initial points of 1. Propaganda influences people or 2. This guy being mad, so I’m happy to leave it where it is rather than drag it further off course so I can find something to disagree with [4]
[1] My other memory of that shooting was Sarah Palin claiming she was the victim of a blood libel, which got people jumping up and down as it’s a term traditionally applied against Jews. That’s a little over excited compared to just correcting her to say she should say “I’ve been libelled of having blood on my hands.” [2]
[2] Not to defend her too strongly, but I’m not fussed if someone doesn’t understand the full history behind a term associated with medieval anti-Semitism and instead uses it to describe something that does have a heavy match against it.
[3] It probably wouldn’t kill them (or at least Glenn Beck) to acknowledge the tragedy a bit more, but I don’t watch their shows so I don’t know if the others at least allow that killing 70 odd innocent people is a bad thing.
[4] We both know I have form doing that if required to find a ground to argue on
August 3, 2011 at 9:47 pm
In the grand scheme of all the things communists have themselves to blame for, this is going to be well down on the list.
Sadly you’re wrong. The Southern Poverty Law Centre lists hate attacks after 9/11 that include arson attacks on Muslim establishments (and murders directly linked to anti-Islamic feeling). John Howard condemned an arson attack on a mosque in Brisbane on 22nd September 2001 and asked Australians not to tar all muslims with the al Qaeda brush. It wasn’t the only such attack.
The Murdoch media’s ability to destroy political parties and manipulate institutions is a different issue entirely, though (as we’ll see below) he’s deeply involved in setting the agenda for these terrorists. Murdoch’s Australian is a loss-making newspaper with the sole purpose of being a mouthpiece for his opinions, and it openly stated in an editorial that it aimed to “destroy” the Greens. This is the same organization that has waged a (successful) campaign to discredit the future head of state of the UK for 30 years, spied on the UK head of state and so successfully corrupted the parliament and law enforcement bodies that even after evidence of its systemic bribing of police and spying on the prime minister came to light, no one in the media, parliament or police force is willing to use the words “corruption” or “espionage.” It’s an organization of corpse-grinders, whose functionaries hack the phones of the dead and destroy evidence in significant criminal investigations just to get a scoop. Bob Brown’s “case” is looking pretty solid in light of recent events, wouldn’t you say? Or perhaps you think routinely bribing police, spying on the PM, releasing deliberately harmful private recordings of the head of state, and interfering in murder investigations is not an indication that this organization is up to no good? Oh and look – it’s News International newspapers that routinely run the claim that Bob Brown controls the government, and it’s right-wing shock-jocks who’re funding a virulent protest movement that uses banners claiming Julia Brown is Bob Brown’s bitch. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
Of course most of them don’t directly say “obama should be shot” (I think this is probably actually a crime in the USA: it certainly would be to say it about Gillard in Australia, though Mike Carlton pointed out an example of a shock-jock saying this recently). I linked above to a case of (I think) O’Reilly talking about killing Michael Moore (“should I do it or should I hire someone? what do you think, listeners?” was the gist of it). But in a militaristic milieu, you don’t need to say “shoot Obama.” You just need to repeatedly stress that he’s a traitor and that he’s out to get you. Jon Stewart has a mildly amusing skit about this, and Pam Geller may have linked approvingly to Breivik’s plans. You can’t deny that this is an atmosphere that encourages violence. It’s febrile and it’s not what we in Australia are used to, but defending it on the grounds that no-one directly said “You all need to kill Obama now” is not the answer.